How Does God Guide Us?

A place to comment on my series:

How Does God Guide Us?

To read comments or add to them, click here.

Comments

[Andrew Chapman]

While I agree that putting one's finger in the bible and then looking is not a mature way of seeking to know God's will, I have observed that the Lord seems to delight in answering questions put to Him in this way by those with a sincere desire to please Him. He doesn't seem to mind it at all, for the reason I suppose, that it shows much faith and trust in His ability to perform this miracle. I can remember going for a job as a water engineer shortly after I was saved and doing exactly this. I looked down and the bible said 'and water shall be scarce', or something very similar. How does He do it, one is tempted to ask! The precision is almost unbelievable. Hallelujah. I write this because the mature can dampen the faith of new converts - with their wild and foolish ways which please God, in my opinion, more than some of our supposed wisdom which avoids risks and foolishness. Love, Andrew

[Kyler]

Have you ever read "Decision Making and the Will of God", by Friesen and Maxson? Coming from a "close-your-eyes-and-point" way of thinking in early college, I had my mind blown the first time I read it.

I imagine that the ideas presented in it will figure prominently in your discussion of this topic, even if you didn't happen to get them from this particular source. But if you (or any of your audience) have not read this presentation of Biblical decision-making, I would recommend that you give it at least a cursory review.

[Andrew Chapman]

You seem to be suggesting in Part II, 'Spirit Guide Silliness', that claims of supernatural guidance from spirit beings are far-fetched or at least of dubious authenticity. Fair enough in a way, except that you make no reference to real demonic spiritual guidance from hell. God warns His people in Deuteronomy 18 vv 9-13 not to allow among them any mediums or soothsayers or spiritists or those who call up the dead. Any such are an abomination to the Lord. I can't believe that there would be such a very strict prohibition if these people were only imagining things. On the contrary I think that these practices are today a major source of evil and destruction amongst God's people as well as in the world at large. To take one example, Adolf Hitler was a practitioner of these evil things, from what I have read and understand. Thanks for listening, Andrew

[Dean W]

I have visited this site a few times after hearing Pastor Roberts on Hugh Hewitt's show. I have been encouraged by what I have heard and read, but this is the first topic that has prompted me to post a comment. Frankly, I'm not a theologian and feel a bit intimidated since my comment is really based on experience and common sense.

I just can't get myself to remotely accept that discerning God's will by opening the Bible and randomly picking a verse is a method anyone should consider. Although, I am quite sure that most Christians have given it a shot from time to time. When Pastor Roberts completes this series, I also don't think he will encourage such a technique.

That being said, discerning God's will is a topic I have struggled with since becoming a Christian in Jr. High. In most instances, I think it's a relatively simple decision based on Biblical teaching. But, like most men, I think I struggle with the direction of my vocation/career. I have longed for that still small voice to confirm which door to open that results in the type of contentment I hope to have one day in my life. I especially seem to be returning to this struggle currently at work, so I am really interested to read what Pastor Roberts has to say. Maybe I'll even post a few more comments as to my personal experience.

[Dean W]

I'm in that camp of getting "weirded out" by such demonstrations of the "Holy Spirit." Unfortunately, when you visit a church and they conduct exercises trying to force everyone to speak in tongues, it has that kind of effect on a person.

How do we discern the guiding of the Holy Spirit versus the influence of our circumstances and knowledge? I don't really know. Maybe I never will.

[Mark D. Roberts]

Friends: Thanks for your comments.

Andrew: You're right about some spirit guide phenomenon. Some, I think, is silly. Some is demonic. Good point.

Kyler: I did read that book about a million years ago. I can't remember the content anymore. It will be interesting to see if I agree with that book or not.

Dean: I do think there are ways to determine what comes from the Spirit and what comes from other sources. I'll try to explain in this series.

Dean: Concerning the random Bible verse method of discernment, I agree with you. This is what I said in that post: "But I do not believe that the "close-your-eyes-and-flip-to-a-Bible-passage" approach to spiritual guidance is God's recommended approach. In fact, I don't think I've ever used this mode of discernment ever again, for good reason."

Peace, Mark

[Andrew Chapman]

I do beg of you to stop repeating the old canard that Christians were barking like dogs during the meetings known as the Toronto refreshing. There was a great deal of laughter but no barking like dogs that I saw. Thanks very much, Andrew

[Mark D. Roberts]

Andrew: I never attended a service in which somebody barked like a dog. But I think it's more than an "old canard." I heard trustworthy folks in the Vineyard talk about this behavior (as a problem, by the way, not as something good). It's documented on the often reliable but not inerrant Wikipedia article on The Toronto Blessing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Blessing). My sense is that the barking was an oddity, while, as you say, the laughter was more common. If my memory serves me correctly, John Wimber considered this sort of thing to be fleshly, not of the Spirit.

[Dennis]

I felt compelled to comment because your experience of witnessing on campus recalled similar experiences. I was a shy Presbyterian and my friend Bill was a shy Catholic and we were in an intense Christian fellowship on our campus that strongly encouraged us to go out witnessing.
We would go out on "The Quad" and pray for guidance. One day everyone the Spirit led us to was a Christian. We were amazed and thought it funny and decided that the Lord was just showing us that he had a plan and we didn't really need to know what it was in detail; just to be faithful, and true, and prepared, and alert, and responsive, and confident.

[Adam Marley]

Random thought association on the flip-n-point theory of guidance. My Jr. High English teacher once told the (fictional) story of a man who asked, "What should I do, God?", flipped through their Bible, pointed to their passage and read, "Matthew 27:5, So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself." As that passage wasn't particularly didactic in nature, he thought he would try again, flipped a little further and landed on Luke 10:37b, "Jesus told him, 'Go and do likewise.'" Mind you, this teacher had a dark sense of humor, so he told it with a smirk.

[Dean W]

A couple of thoughts . . . the girls you met were no less worthy to hear the gospel had you followed them into Dunster House which would have resulted in you missing the chance meeting with Matt. I agree though, that your meeting with Matt did seem as if you were guided through your experiences by the Holy Spirit. I just wished I would keep my focus on eternity and find those opportunities whether the Holy Spirit is at work or not. Most of the time I'm too focused on my own needs and worries though and probably miss some great opportunities.

[Mark D. Roberts]

For the record, I'm not advocating the "flip-n-point" approach to spiritual guidance. I do think that God sometimes uses even such a silly method because He is gracious. God also spoke through Balaam's ass. But I don't recommend talking to doneys either. Peace.

[Andrew Chapman]

Great testimony. To me that's to do with Jesus's promises to answer prayers prayed in His name. He is faithful to answer prayer and will overrule our plans and intentions to fulfill His promise and word. In other words it doesn't really depend on our ability and skill in obeying the Spirit's promptings - although of course we should aim for obedience and sensitivity to the Spirit - but on His sovereign guidance and plan. He uses our mistakes as well to accomplish His purpose. The key is the prayer of faith which releases destiny.

About the barking: sure it may have happened - and I did once see a lady flapping her arms about in a way which I thought was probably demonic - but I don't think it's a fair description of the Toronto movement and phenomena. There was a lack of discernment about the need for deliverance ministry and much fleshiness and too much emphasis on music as usual - but it was glorious beyond anything else I have experienced in seventeen years as a Christian.

[Mark D. Roberts]

Andrew: Thanks.

I didn't mean the comment about "barking" to be either representative or fair. That's why, by the way, I didn't mention the Toronot church by name. For me it was an example of how certain people can get scared by extreme behaviors, and overreact. I have a very good friend who has been quite involved in Toronto, and has seen many, many good and godly things there.

[Andrew Chapman]

How many instances in the scripture itself are there of specific guidance being given and received through scripture, rather than the more common way of God speaking in words directly (or through an angel) to His servants? I can think of one: Daniel 9 v 2 where Daniel has been reading Jeremiah and realises that he can pray on the basis of scripture for the restoration of Israel to their land. Are there any others?

[Mark D. Roberts]

Andrew: Great question. Part of the problem, of course, is that the Bible as we know it didn't exist during "Bible times." Christians didn't have a New Testament, and most didn't even have copies of the Old Testament. Some Christians who were Jewish might well have known from memory substantial portions of the Old Testament, but ownership of scrolls was very rare since they were so expensive. I think we do get a picture of the role of Scripture (i.e. the Old Testament) in guiding people through the way the Scripture is so thoroughly quoted, referenced, and paraphrased in the New Testament. I'm not thinking of specific guidance in the form of "God wants you to do X," but in the broader sense of God's will. I do think it's highly likely, for example, that Jesus's sense of His own distinctive calling was formed in light of the Servant Songs in Isaiah (esp. chs. 52-53), for example. Peace.

[stevebedard]

My favourite story on what I was taught as "Bible bingo" is from the parents of a friend of mine. The lady was wondering if it was God's will for her to marry one particular fellow. She opened the Bible randomly and out her finger down. The verse from the Old Testament read "Find yourself a bullock." The last name of the man she was considering marrying was Bullock. She married him and they are still together. I do not condone the method but it is a pretty good story.

[Andrew Chapman]

God loves faith and obedience and is not too bothered about childishness, in my opinion. So He answers a prayer made with sincerity and in faith to show us what to do, even if the method chosen is immature. I also do not recommend it but I don't believe we should tell new believers not to do it (I am not suggesting anyone here was, it's a concern about stamping our version of 'maturity' on the youthful exuberance of new believers). It's like telling a young child to behave like an older one. That doesn't work - instead we wait for them to grow up in God's good time.

Re scriptural examples of guidance through scripture: Not guidance in the most common sense, but I find Peter's response to the question 'Whatever could this mean' amidst much confusion and amazement on the day of Pentecost, is very instructive. It would perhaps have been natural for him to have explained how Jesus had told them to wait in Jerusalem for the coming of the Spirit - so don't be alarmed it's under control.. but instead, or more powerfully, he takes them to their scriptures: this is what was spoken by the prophet..

One could call it a guidance of explanation, to show how things fit in to God's word and plan.

[Mark D. Roberts]

Yes, Andrew, this is a fine example. Peter's use of Joel helps to interpret the events of Pentecost. Thanks.

[Andrew Chapman]

While I believe that major life decisions should be submitted to elders for their discernment, advice and counsel, I don't believe that we should surrender the final decision to them. In the end we must be accountable to God alone and to be willing to say that we respect the advice that has been given but believe that God has directed us otherwise and that we will stand accountable to Him alone for our decision. I think of C.T.Studd when he refused to be prevented from a second missionary call to Africa and went with a brother (and against the wishes of his wife too as I remember) to preach the gospel to unreached peoples - with great fruitfulness.

Nevertheless "By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established", and it seems to me that if the Lord has indeed spoken to us then He will be willing to confirm it through witnesses, and I am not thinking of my best friend who may want to please me, but men of the Holy Spirit and wisdom.

[Dean W]

I think Paul's command to "test everything" is an important one that often gets ignored. Thanks for bringing it to light.

[Kozak]

The story of the dreamy-eyed girls going after the pastor rang a bell with me. My wife had a coworker who was dating a Methodist. We went on a double date, and she declared that God had called her to be with this guy. Some time later she married a Mormon!

[Dean W]

I have really enjoyed this series, but could there be too much focus on trying to let the Spirit guide us? Let me put it this way. When I dream about what the Church should "look like," I envision a Community that practices the very obvious teachings of the Bible. They love each other, enter into authentic Community, feed the poor, spread the Gospel, develop Disciples, etc. You get the picture. Yet, there are so many people looking for God's divine guidance, yet we live lives that look just like the majority of those who don't call themselves Christian.

Here's an example: There are many instances when a Church has to let a couple of their leadership staff go because of an inappropriate relationship. It sure seems obvious to me that there wasn't any divine guidance needed when trying to decide whether or not to enter into the relationship. The answer was an obvious, "Don't do it!"

Or, how about this. Churches seem bent on modeling their organization around successful large businesses. They build large buildings, create enormous debt that their congregation is burdened with, develop complicated marketing campaigns to "reach the lost," to the point that they barely even look like a church. It might as well be a weekly entertainment event that's appropriate for the entire family. These "plans" are directed through a lot of prayer and the seeking of God's will. I work for a large corporation, and there isn't anything close to being Holy inside it's walls. It's entirely about growth and profit. Nothing wrong for a business if it's run ethically, but a Church?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have spent a lot of time searching for God's guidance. I try not to as much anymore. I think what God wants for our lives is a lot simpler than that. If we practiced the basics and responded accordingly to the people and events in our lives, we would be doing so much to further God's Kingdom, we wouldn't need to worry about waiting for divine intervention.